The ship's controller, Salamarassigns Vishinskythe most experienced crewmember, to lead the landing party. The ship has barely enough fuel to make the return journey — they do not have power for a scan before sending the party down to locate Sorenson and his team. The Doctor and Sarah reach the base. They discover Braun's almost mummified body on the ground. The base unit's interior is dark. The Doctor surmises they are some months too late.
Sarah goes back to the TARDIS to get his spectromixer so he can fix their position while he tries to restore the base's power. When Sarah leaves, the Doctor discovers Baldwin's body in the same mummified state. The police box is transmatted away. The landing party spots Sorenson, who, although acting a bit strangely, assures Vishinsky he is all right and his theory about Zeta Minor has proven correct.
He found the vital discovery last night in Sector 5. Sorenson believes Baldwin returned to the base, suffering from fatigue. He leads the party to it. Vishinsky asks about the other six members of his expedition. Sorenson is evasive about the exact number and concedes they have lost some people, but the important thing is that the mission is a success. When they reach the base, the landing party find the Doctor working on the systems next to Baldwin's body.
Sorenson is startled to see the corpse. He says Baldwin has been murdered Vishinsky and Sorenson in the jungle of Zeta Minor. Salamar tells her she is in orbit over Zeta Minor and a prisoner of the Morestrans. Salamar contacts Vishinsky and tells him to keep a careful watch on the Doctor while he questions Sarah. Salamar does not believe Sarah and the Doctor just "picked up" the distress signal, as Zeta Minor is so remote.
The ship lands on the planet near the base. Sorenson says they had only been working a few weeks when the killings began, always at night. Salamar believes it is the work of alien infiltrators and suggests the Doctor confess before he is subjected to interrogation. When Salamar is told there is no sign of life anywhere else, he concludes the Doctor and Sarah must be responsible and gives the order for their execution.
However, the Doctor and Sarah are escaping through the window of the store room in which they are held, whose magnetic locks are weak due to the power loss. The moment they step out, they encounter a semi-transparent, monstrous figure, its outlines glowing red, reaching out for them.
One of the guards, O'Harafires at the creature, but it grabs him and he vanishes, screaming, only for his body to reappear, drained and mummified like the others.
The Doctor is not sure what the creature is but tells Sarah he has a very unpleasant theory. Pontiwho heard O'Hara's screams, informs Salamar that the base in under attack and they find the two time travellers missing. The Morestrans fire at them as they run away into the jungle. Dawn breaks on Zeta Minor and the creature does not seem to like daylight. Vishinsky launches the oculoid trackera flying drone with a camera eye, to search the jungle for the fugitives.
Meanwhile, Sorenson confirms that O'Hara died the same way as the other members of his expedition, through total dehydration — a kind of rapid freeze drying. Sorenson brushes off the deaths as irrelevant. His mission to Zeta Minor was to find a new source of energy to replace Morestra's dying sun, and he has succeeded. Sorenson demands that his mineral samples be taken aboard and they leave the planet immediately.
However, Salamar says that alien forces must be found and eliminated. The tracker finds the Doctor and Sarah near the pit in Sector 5, a dark pool with no reflection. A party arrives, led by Ponti, but as they search the two roughly, Ponti falls into the pit with a cry.
The Doctor warns the rest back, telling them they are tampering with the balance of nature on the planet and it may already be too late. At the base, Sorenson gets De Haan to help load his canisters of refined ore onto the ship. Sorensen excitedly notes that six pounds of ore could produce heat equal to the output of their sun for three centuries; full scale exploitation of Zeta Minor would provide perpetual energy.
The Doctor implores Salamar to listen to him: Zeta Minor is the boundary between the known universe and one of anti-matter. In coming here, they have crossed that boundary. He warns Sorenson that if he takes those samples, they will never leave this planet, but Salamar orders the Doctor and Sarah to be taken to the quarantine area.
He opens a canister of refined ore and takes a few crystals, placing them in an old toffee tin to test a theory. The ship tries to take off, but the systems do not respond properly. The creature attacks the ship. The force fields are raised, but there is not enough power to repel its pure energy form.
Several Morestran crewmen rush out to fire at the creature, but to no avail. It drains them one by one. The Doctor tells them to link the force field to the atomic accelerator. Salamar hesitates, but Vishinsky says they have to try, and he reluctantly gives the order. This seems to work; the creature is driven back and vanishes.
The Doctor tries to reason with Sorenson; as long as the ore is aboard, the creature will return, and they will be trapped here. If they jettison the canisters and make clear their intention to leave empty-handed, they will be allowed to take off. The Doctor offers to communicate that intention to the creature. Salamar agrees to let him go alone but launches the tracker to observe him. When the Doctor reaches the pit, the creature rises, engulfing the Time Lord. He falls into the pool The Doctor seems dead.
Sorenson asks Salamar to take off, but Salamar wants the ore samples removed first. As they argue, Sarah slips out of the ship into the jungle. As De Haan and Morelli start to transfer the canisters, Sorenson sneaks into the quarantine area and takes one away.
The Doctor continues his seemingly endless fall through darkness, slowing until he is suspended, floating before the gigantic energy creature. When Sarah reaches the pit, she sees the Doctor climbing out, half delirious and falling in and out of consciousness. Vishinsky spots them on the tracker's signal and goes to get them, despite Salamar's protests. In his quarters, Sorenson records his observations on the ore's increase in flux activity, but something is obviously affecting him.
He doubles over in pain, and his eyes glow red. He quickly quaffs a solution from a flask and returns to normal. The Doctor is placed in the ship's sickbay. When he awakens, the ship is taking off, but Sarah assures him that the samples have been jettisoned. The Doctor relaxes. He had given his word as a Time Lord to whatever was in the pit.
The ship's systems start to fail as before, however, and the Doctor realises he still has some antimatter ore in the toffee tin, which he used to survive the pit. Morelli is given the tin to jettison it, but as he turns a corner, he is attacked and drained.
The ship has reached free space, but drag is still increasing. The Doctor deduces that there must be antimatter still aboard. A feral Sorenson drinks another dose of his infusion and returns to normal. Examining the body in the sickbay, Vishinsky discovers that Morelli was killed the same way, even though the creature could not have gotten on board through the force field.
Vishinsky ejects Morelli's body into space. On Sorenson's advice, Salamar goes to the sickbay and accuses the Doctor again of causing the deaths. The Fourth Doctor and Sarah aboard the Morestran probe ship. The ship is not making any headway.
It hangs suspended in space despite the thrusters going at full power. The Doctor tells them they have reached the end of their elastic; it will stretch no further.
In the sickbay, Sarah sees Sorenson double over in pain again. This might seem like an odd question, but do you know anything about harness goats? We are looking into getting one or two boer wethers, specifically to train as cart goats, and in my research, most, if not all still have their horns. We bought 3 bohr mixed goats in March. They are being used as a market goat project for 4H. None of them have very big buds yet and one has none. Is it to late to band them? The 4H show is in late July.
I just dont think I can do the burning. Question time! We bought a little Pygmy goat not to long ago. Getting her a friend this Friday. My little Lady we bought has horns on her. Not to big at all, but already have a slight curve. Will they grow very big? If they grow large, I would like to know, seeing I would banding. Also, if you do banding, is there anything extra I would need to know?
Infection, etc. Yes, they should grow to full-size. Sorry, I wish I could be more help in that area! Sorry you guys about all them Europe people being up your you know what. I myself am German and moved with my husband to his home state Louisiana 7 years ago.
We bought 10 acres and own now 2 horses, 5 dogs, 16 chickens, 2 cats and now 3 Nigerian dwarf goats. I grew up knowing nothing about animals but how to feed them and if something was wrong to call the Vet. Now, I give ALL my animals their shots, trim their hoofs and treat their wounds with home made salves….
AND guess what, my animals are as healthy as they can be, blooming really!! Good step by step! However, I did want to mention that I recommend skipping the knife part. When I have used a knife it just makes the kid bleed and can easily lead to complications. Even with cauterizing it! If you just use the disbudding iron to sort of scrape off the horn bud and burn the top as you show, it takes care of it! Much easier than the knife.
Just my insight from experience.? I am new to this goat stuff…I have a female that I purchased with horns. She had two bucklings and they also have horns…. How do you know if they are to old to disbud or when is it NOT safe to disbud any longer. Also, one of the males the momma rejected and I bottle fed him. She now gets aggressive with him, with her horns….
I have kept them separated for a long time…. Will she kill him if left alone with him? I think 8 weeks might be just on the cusp of being too old. Do you have a local person in your area who specializes in disbuddings? You might want to keep them separated until he gets bigger. Thanks for the info. I have one goat with horns was 9 mos old when I bought him and 4 without. The one with horns has gotten stuck before.
I will be taking the buds off my baby kids when they come. Can you explain the extra step for the males a bit more? You made it sound like it is to prevent scurs. One comment made it sound like for minimizing buck scent???? They also said its behind rather than in front? I want to get it right! And I really appreciate your experience…I am a newbie:. Thank you for this post. Should be fixed now!
Hey city girl! I found your site to be very informative. I do not have goats as of yet, actually just started searching for dairy goats, eventually go through searches for meat goats as well. You have taught me a lot. I am one that would prefer to debud a baby goat rather than have horns. I feel anxiety over it, but I guess you can get use to just about anything. Kind of like going through your first Dont Make It Too Late - Dr.
Mablues and the detail Horns - Back For Good (CD). Hi, I acquired 3 horned adult goats. I got them to help keep the pasture clean, and have become quit attached to them. They are extremely friendly and they love their scratches. One of the three goats appox age: 4 is very sweet with me and loves attention, however she is very aggressive with the other goats.
I have to lock them in at night due to predators and the other two goats became afraid to go into the barn because they are undoubtedly harassed by her in the night. I installed a divider in the barn so they mean goat now has to sleep in her own corner at night which solves the night time problems, but the goats still get picked on during the day.
I considered giving the mean one away, but I am afraid she will ultimately get killed or mistreated due to her aggression towards other goats. I am now considering de-horning her. I hope that dehorning reduce or eliminate her aggression towards the other goats, or at least the other goats have a better chance of sticking up for themselves.
I am reluctant to dehorn her because it does seem cruel and painful, but it may simply save her life in the long run, since the next person may have less patience for her. I have a couple questions. Is banning the most humane dehorning method? Thanks for any advice you can offer. Goats are inherently herd animals and thrive in those situations.
Is this normal? And would you recommend coconut oil to help heal it? That is normal, actually as they scab over, the babies can knock them off while playing and they can look pink or red, even bleed a little.
We have farmed for years cattle LLamas and now Nigerian dwarf goats we disbudded a set of triplets and the day of disbudding the acted normal now day 2 the seem to be sleeping a lot and not playing like always is this normal. I would say to keep a close eye on them. I would pay more attention to their behavior when they are awake.
Are they running around and playing? If so, they are doing well! Thanks for the info! I will likely have someone else do the de-budding the first few times until my husband and I feel comfortable with the procedure.
Love your site, by the way! I just got my first goats! They are 10 weeks old. They were disbudded at a week old. However, I noticed that one of them Dont Make It Too Late - Dr. Mablues and the detail Horns - Back For Good (CD) little nubs while the other is completely smooth. Do you think the one with nubs will grow out into scurs?
Or is it normal to have a little nub? One question I had, though: are we able to blunt the ends of the horns as they get larger to make them less dangerous as a compromise? I ask this because I appreciate the aesthetic of the horns and I will be starting goats this year not because I disagree with the practice.
Good job! People, giving an animal a pain killer is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Animals have a very high tolerance for pain here in the U. S we may do things differently than you do in the uk and there is a reason for that the closest vet to me is over 4 hours away so I have to learn to castrate and dehorn animals myself along with many other procedures that I cannot wait for four hours for a vet to come out and take care of, It you are raising animals as a hobby by all means have a vet take care of all of your problems but when you raise animals for a living or to feed yourself it is a different story you have to best interest in your own life to learn these very simple techniques.
The first time I carried out one of these procedures is no different the first time the vet carried out the procedure. We all learn sometime we just need to do research and be prepared for every possible situation to arise.
Life is tough. Its a lot tougher in the wild. I can promise you one thing my animals have better food and shelter than I had while I served in the Marine Corps during the invasion of Iraq.
I also bred one of my girls to a polled naturally hornless buck, so hopefully that will mean fewer disbuddings. The horn bases were much smaller than the males. You have to clip the horn off as close to the head as possible with a clean, very sharp clipper. Yes, there is a lot of blood.
You have to apply the horn burner to the horn area to cauterize it. Rolling the burner over the top of the clipped horn will stop it from bleeding. Be patient and take your time. The burner needs to be hot. I use a fan placed in back of me to blow away the smoke. I use Tasvax 82 ml each armpit 4ml total This is their 1st dose. In 6 weeks they get their 2nd dose of 2ml. To take out the med. Put the cap back in place and put it back in the fridge. Your meds will stay uncontaminated and will last for the length of the date on the bottle.
My baby Is 6 days old today and i have been feeling her head every day for buds. Did I mess her up? What should I expect? Please help!!! I have seen young calves dehorned with a gas ring dehorner. They are unaware of a lot that goes on in farming i guess. I am choosing to keep horns on my goats for two reasons. Self defense against neighbor dogs, and because i find the horns pretty. Also i grab horns to help guide the animals around and control them.
People often get in to much of a hurry when they are debudding. Please if you do it take your time and make sure you do it right. Thank you so much for showing clear, color pictures of the process.
We use portable electric netting to rotationally graze our pasture and I see the benefit in preventing hang-ups there. This is a pretty grim thing to do. Here in the UK this is meant to only be a procedure carried out by a vet. Thanks for this comment. This is a disgusting practice.
You could at least put the animal under anesthesia first. You would certainly do that for a person. I especially feel sorry for any goat that has to suffer the mistakes of some amateur doing this for the first time. And yeah, I am going to judge anyone that causes animals this sort of pain and suffering. I shudder to think of the suffering as people experiment on their goats, the way I shudder when I imagine young boys hunting and torturing the animal to death because they are incompetent, or people attempting to slaughter their animals and botching the job.
I wanted to homestead because I respect animals and disagree with their treatment on factory farms — not just because I want to be trendy or have a hobby. I have personally seen a grown man gored in the stomach.
Yep, de-horning is gross, and yep it caused momentary pain, but it is usually the best thing to do. Put down the PETA sign and educate yourself about farm animals. People dock dogs tails, crop their ears and remove their dew claws, almost exclusively for cosmetic reasons, when they are very small. All are incredibly painful procedures. At least there is a true reason behind it. Kudos to you for doing what you feel will keep your family and goats safe, Danelle. And kudos for learning how to do it yourself.
As a European, docking tails, clipping ears, declawing cats etc is completely illegal all over the EU. Only in the USA are such horrible practices legal. The fact that the USA allows these practices is not a good argument. Hmmmm…… last I saw EU docks lamb tails. We also rescued an animal that came from the UK that had ears clipped. You better check your sources. Tail docking is done when puppies are between one and three days of age.
No myelin, no pain. After that period, vets will use anesthesia and consider tail docking major surgery. Ear cropping does remove part of the ear and so recovery can be painful; however, the dog is anesthetized to perform the corpping procedure. Properly cared for and medicated, there does not need to be any pain at all to the dog.
I agree with disbudding goats and do not oppose docking and cropping tails and ears. Are you kidding me? Would love to report you.
You are a horrible human being. Please never have animals ever again. Your response genuinely elicited quite a chuckle from me. The process is definitely not any crueler than the butchering of the cattle that gave me the delicious tri-tip I ate for dinner last night.
Significantly less cruel than the caging of chickens for the eggs I ate for breakfast this morning as well. People who respond to something like this in the way you have, something that is a widely accepted process in the treatment of livestock animals, appear to be living in a fantasy world. I really do love this sit, really! What they. Ever acknowledge is that the flow has always been created by my planning so that everything does flow.
I am not uptight. I am actually relaxed and serene because I am organised and not rushing around accOmisjing nothing and stressing out being late etc. Tardy people expect others to be there and in a timely manner when they have a crisis which I have noticed is fairly often with them. I know there are different people in this world but tardy people seem to think it is their right to be late and think organised people are in the wrong when they get upset!
For me it is not about the time. It more about your word. She asks what I am doing and I tell her say when the movie starts. I get there at the time I want and go inside and sit down she either arrives before lights out or not.
I will often come our after and we meet in the foyer. The problem for me is that all my friends are like this so it is easy for them to point me out as the one with the problem! I mean I have left my friend wandering in a daze around a market so that at least I would not be late for our plane!
I left her because she just disappeared and knew that if I wasted time looking for her that we would miss the Plane so I left because I was sick of her. Of not caring about time and always leaving it up to me go be the reminder like as if she was a child.
I am now giving up on them and organising myself because I am simPly tired of being their social secretary with no thanks. I organise accommOdagion and travel etc when we go to big events but never get thanks just joked about. I have heard the accommodation is all gone because this event is huge.
Guess who will be expecting to stay in my room? They want it all without lifting a finger! The biggest beef I have is that. One of these People has a full time job!!!!!!!!! And yet that ate always too bdh go be organised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, my point is good and ok to be late sometimes.
Hi Greg, Being late is plain and simple, unacceptable! Having dealt for years with an extreme serial latecomer, ie. The cat has only a tiny bit of litter left to do his business in today.
Thank you all! I give others 10 minutes grace, then I leave. Great rant! Yes, Greg — I totally agree. There is only one word for that kind of thing: RUDE. I agree wholeheartedly! And she finds this hilarious! Ouch, he gets revenge. In business, it does impact upon who I choose to do business with. Self centred need not apply. Game is over. My husband and I joined a group of friends for our regular social group dinner. Booking was at 7pm and we got there first, 15 minutes early, and that was with a 90 minute drive to get there initially.
The other couples strolled in over the course of the next 45 minutes. The latest couple to arrive? Those who lived closest. Funnily enough, we dropped out of this group soon there after. And not just the lateness factor that bothers me. Or the another annoying lateness by-product: those who are rushing to get everywhere, and get served first or driving like idiots in the traffic to get to the lights before you, or push passed you in their rush without even acknowledging your presence.
Ill-manned, disorganised, angry and inconsiderate. YOU have no place in my business or world. In my world of business, I am the Queen and I set my own rules.
Oh I love this! I the thought of being late. It fills me with anxiety. I just get more organised. A common problem is that meeting 1 goes from and often runs over timemeeting 2 starts at 10 somewhere else. Time manners also applies to the meeting organisers who have to recognise that it is poor time management for meetings to run overtime, and recognise it takes a finite amount of time for people to get from A to B.
Ideally a one-hour 9am meeting should start on time at 9, have the agenda covered by for discussion, start to wrap up at so people can leave with 5 minutes spare to get to their next meeting on time. I agree…. Inevitably occasionally things do go wrong, but serial offenders suck… I like this part:. I am a medical doctor by profession, a specialist who is self employed…. I cannot remember when last I was on time….
The respondents to this site appear to represent a heavily biased sample cohort ……. Possibly there is a genetic and or familial factor,environmental factor or simply learned behaviour ……. DO YOU…. I agree with an earlier respondent who said an arranged time should be considered an approximate time around which people should plan their lives……our lives are after all rigid enough……. Anyway punctuality seems to be somewhat cultural……In more laid back cultures like Mexico……if not enough people show up for a company meeting….
I AM the one who is ultimately forced to shoulder the blame…. BUT …then i always remember what my friend Jon used to say…. An ironical anecdote……. I arrived at a wedding prior to the time on the invitation …. She had left instructions in her will that her her funeral service should begin 5 minutes before the arrival of her casket at the funeral home……. For a professional, you sure take everything personal! Have you thought about the people you are making wait?
If you really are a Dr. I would hate to be your patient. You give a bad rap for the medical field by not having empathy and consideration for your patients if you are making them wait for that long. Yes everyone has faults and it is important for people to be aware of those faults. Have you ever thought that maybe your friends or family teased you about being late but are actually quite bothered by it?
Probably not, you seem the type to never think what you do is wrong. My roommate and I were going to a party and she said she would be ready by 8. She made me wait around for her for an hour and 15 minutes. She took a nap until and then she went to the store. At first I waited patiently and then I decided to ask her how long she would be after an hour of waiting. She responsed by yelling at me to calm down and be patient, that I was ruining her night!!
Can you believe that? All I asked was how much longer. Nothing is wrong with being late, which is what the author of the post is saying.
What is wrong is when people do not have the decency to communicate with you that they are going to be late or worse they even turn it around on you when they are in the wrong. This post is about common decency and that is all. Here is a thought for you. How would that make you feel? Well, not having the decency to apologize or communicate when making someone wait is also disrespectful to the people you are making wait. Oh Dr. Im concerned that you feel your lateness is genetic. As a medical professional you know that not possible.
I will be an RN in may School is difficult, high pressure and timely. Im assuming you are a real educated M.
With that said, if you were tardy in medical school like you say you are now, you would have been tossed out on your tail. Maybe you should put your computer down and get to work on time.
I could assure you, I would never be a patient of yours. Is your time really more important than mine? Pull yourself together! Your coworker are making fun of you trying to get your attention and its simply blowing right over your heard. That is an offensive remark. I also hold restaurants to their reservations. If they make me book a specific time and only give me a few minutes of leeway, then I expect to be seated when I arrive. I will give them some wiggle room of 10 minutes or so, but if I have a reservation for 8, I better be seated by I have waited for a certain friend for an hour or two on several occasions, I am always on time.
I tell her exactly what time well be meeting etc. She always gives out to me saying I should text her when I leave and when she Gould leave, I think if you arrange to meet someone you have to be responsible enough to leave on time. I have a friend who habitually shows up about minutes late for most anything we get together to do.
It was not until we started including a third person in some of our outings that I noticed suddenly and mysteriously she was always on time or even a few minutes early when this person was coming. I came to the rude awakening that she was not late for everyone—just ME. She made the extra effort to be on time for this other person—not for me. I let this occur several times.
I am so glad to see this post. It is one of my pet peeves. I was already at the agreed upon site and on time. Apparently her fitness session was more important than my business proposition. Another pet peeve is webinars that start late. But this is a common practice. Those who are on time deserve their time not be wasted waiting for Dont Make It Too Late - Dr.
Mablues and the detail Horns - Back For Good (CD). Soon movies, plays and TV shows will start late, too? Do I plan to be late? Do I want to be late? It wastes other peoples time, it makes the teacher annoyed, it disrupts the class.
I cycle 8 miles into college everyday and then have to get changed and find somewhere to put my bike when I get here, which takes about 8 minutes. Sure the latter is better, but being 2 — 3 minutes early would be better. I saw this great TEDtalk about procrastination.
They believe by thinking through and breaking up the process we are less likely to procrastinate and get things done.
May be by breaking up the process of what you have to do to get ready and alotting the time it takes for each task, setting a time goal for each task eg. I use to have races with myself to see how fast I could get these done and I won I would give myself a reward like an espresso coffee when I got to college or work early.
Hope that works for you. I am a marriage celebrant in Australia… guess what I deal with every week? Late brides! During our interview process I let them know that 5 minutes is fashionable, but anything more than that is unfair on guests who are waiting in the sun for the bride to arrive. The difference in the mood of the guests is incredible. Keep them waiting too long and they get cranky. Kids start to wriggle and whine, and people wander off to the bar for a quick bevvy before the ceremony.
Or, on-time-ish, in the case of a bride. The guests at my ceremonies are always happy, as are the couples who are surrounded by smiling faces! Win win! This article really cut close to the bone, but thank you. Consider me chastised and enlightened. What peevs me is although late some people can find time to make a coffee whilst the on timers resent the late. Have an amazing memory or just coming for the ride?? I sometimes give out pen and paper to the ones I task just like in kindergarten…Any thoughts.
Where I came from the military we did not tolerate lateness. At the meeting start time the door was closed, so anyone late had to come through the door.
When they did, they got a standing ovation — just embarrassing them beyond belief. They were not late again! I agree with the first part. That day we wasted about 5 hours of our time and I, as a big fan from the Oriflame brand, was greatly disappointed. There is no excuse for being late unless of an emergency.
If one is going to be late call and let the other person know. Its just common decency, or cancel the appointment ahead of time if possible. I make sure I leave on time. They have all the nurses in the main office, get them to call and say they are running late.
I too run my own business and have numerous appointments to take my mom of 90so you have hit on a sore point: Its rude to keep us waiting! I just had my worst date experience just now. Basically, I have been on three dates with this one guy. So, I ignore the physical issues and pay attention to his inner person. Between dates, there is no contact. I dressed up in a nice outfit that I knew he would admire not too conservative, not too tarty ; had my nails done; wore his favourite accessories; ordered a nice meal for him in my favourite bistro, and waited.
All of this I planned and arranged a week in advance of this evening. When he called me, I had just finished my meal, and was sipping a glass of red wine and enjoying my dessert. He was right on time. I knew it would put a smile on his face. I told him where I was, and as I predicted, he offered to show up there. After 30 minutes, I paid bill and called a cab.
Forty-five minutes later, I was in a taxi. He just sat there and ate his gourmet meal, which I paid for! All the while gorging on the delicious supper I had arranged for him. But to put him down for eating the meal is silly.
You arrogantly told the world about his medical condition which is a violation of his privacy. What makes you think you are better? Just a thought; why are you so angry? Is he not giving in to your every need? Why do you pry on the weak? You are the idiot!!!! In my private life, people get one, maybe two chances with me. I will usually give someone a break if I know their excuse is valid.
I once dated a guy for over a year who was repeatedly late for everything. This was in the days before personal computers and cell phones, so he had limited distractions other than a TV, telephone, and a cranky older brother he lived with.
I finally got smart and realized that if I wanted him to pick me up for our date say, at pm, to tell him to be at my house at pm.
Up until then, waiting for him was painful. When we finally broke up, I was actually relieved. Your problems are unfortunate, but they are YOUR problems. Even when I set three alarms. Even when I allot ample time for the commute.
Even when I know being late, again, will cause deep anguish and guilt. If you people think I choose this behavior, you are completely ignorant.
For some, perhaps exactly what was written is true: tardiness is a sign of disrespect and rudeness. No amount of knowing something makes doing it easier. Do some research, have some compassion.
I also really appreciate this article. I recently had a meeting at work that was supposed to start at 8am, due to that week being packed with meetings. At 8am, I was at the meeting location. Atsomeone from another department finally strolled in and told us that nobody else was there because they all knew the meeting would start atat the earliest. And this is at a very large company in NYC. Thank you for the great article. What if the person you were meeting had to stop to help a person in danger?
Yes, people should honor their commitments. Let me get this straight… 10 of you waited around for 20 minutes for one more person to arrive before you could start your meeting? The meeting should start on time no-matter how many are there. Doing anything else reinforces the bad behaviour, since it punishes the people who arrive on time and rewards the ones who arrive late. The effect is then to make the prompt people be tardy next time, since they now know that the meeting starts late.
The exact opposite of what you want to achieve. So, start on time, and, ideally allocate work to latecomers before they arrive! I was taught that you never wait for people running late before starting a meeting.
Always start it on time. Agree Greg. That is simply the truth. The other side of the coin is to be a person who can look that relative, friend or colleague in the eye and convince them to change it. After that dont ever be a hypocrite ; A handy practice that helps everyone is to get that one hour meeting down to 45 mins and end early.
However I feel like this part is only about being on time to work everyday. I agree with meetings and other occasions to be on time to. I am rarely on time and if I am it is only by accident. Usually the meetings I attend are with people wanting my help and I am usually running late because someone else has kept me waiting.
I set out with good intentions. I also travel everywhere by public transport. Especially during the Winter months this often lets me down. However, I do inform people when making meetings to not expect me on time and I will update them if I will be more than ten minutes late. I face this dilemma myself. My occupation involves supporting critical business functions computersso I have a lot of emergencies.
Plus, I am often working on stuff that actually is both important and urgent, so a meeting feels like an unwanted interruption. I used to be late all the time, until I realized how rude I was being. Now, like you, I inform people when making appointments about the challenges of my job and the fact that I might get pulled into an emergency I cannot put off.
Know what? Now I am making meetings on time as the norm and late when it is an actual emergency. As far as public transit goes, it is no different than driving a car. You know what to expect so allow for the standard commute.
Maybe that means you grab some work to take with you and catch an earlier ride. My boss is chronically late. Thank you. Five minutes early is on time, ten minutes early is five minutes early and fifteen minutes early is ten minutes early. So I guess everything is all about you and the world has to revolve around you? You did not read the article, did you?
The author clearly stated that there are times when people are going to be late. Real reasons, like you list though traffic is often a lame excuse rather than a real reason…if you are well aware of traffic conditions you need to allow for them. I suspect you are one of those constantly tardy people, since you are so perturbed by this article.
So let me say back to you — the world does not revolve around you! Consider this, 5 people are waiting for you.
Who is the selfish one, the 5 who expected you to arrive on time as agreed, or you who kept those 5 people waiting? You are correct about other cultures.
Something you may not have considered is in these same cultures, business and social is viewed differently. You show up for a business meeting on time so that business can happen. Within the social context, everyone has the same expectations so being late is not rude within the right context. But note that the ending time is just as flexible in these structures, and taking off to get somewhere else or just go home to get some alone time would be viewed as rude.
I wholeheartedly agree with this entire post, Dont Make It Too Late - Dr. Mablues and the detail Horns - Back For Good (CD). Lateness is a generational thing. It has unfortunately become socially acceptable to disregard structured time. And, it drives me bonkers. I remember one birthday I gave everyone the time to be at the restaurant and specifically told people a time 15 minutes before the reservation was actually set at. Only one friend had the respect to call me to say she was looking for parking and would be there in 5 minutes.
After sitting down at our reserved time, I waited 10 minutes, called my other friend who was plus a couple people and asked her if she was on her way. Finally, 45 minutes after the scheduled reservation, they saunter in as if it was nothing. My one friend came and said hi to me. And, her friends followed her. All the while, my polite, old school English father was sitting there glaring at this rude stranger.
He politely said hello when introduced, but he was good enough to be on my side and not engage the rude latecomers in niceties. Do not text me 15 minutes after the scheduled time and say you will be there in five minutes. Do not bring a group of friends without running it by me first. If you are going to bring friends I have never met before, please disclose the reason for the gathering. If any of this is too hard to abide by, I understand… But do understand that these are all part simple manners anyone 14 and older need to live by.
I see both sides. I am naturally not a time oriented person who has had to grow a lot over the years to become more aware of time passage.
I was often late though because I would get so relationally involved with the person that I was meeting with at the present, that I would be unaware of how quickly time past and be late for my next appointment. It was a highly relational job. So it was rude to the person waiting, but very considerate of the person I was with at the time. So it can go both ways. Also, my daughter is often late for school because neither she nor I are morning people, I have 3 other kids to get ready, and family time in the evening is a high value to us, but it often means later bed times.
But her school without any input from students or parents decided to start at 8am when plenty of schools around us start at or later. So I guess I am just saying that there are exceptions. There is also something to be Dont Make It Too Late - Dr.
Mablues and the detail Horns - Back For Good (CD) for it being cultural. Or, for instance, the church I attend is very large and because they always started service EARLY that meant getting there on time was functionally late…so why not be another ten minutes late?? Yes, it can be very rude and inconsiderate in some contexts. But in some circles it is simply expected.
I agree with Kim that you need to take culture into account. That can be a very ethnocentric view. You are right that in many cultures it probably is mostly pride or a lack of consideration for others that affects being late.
Not all cultures communicate directly where starting at 8 means and 0 seconds. It almost can feel rude and uncomfortable to show up on time knowing the host meant for you to come 30 minutes or an hour after the time they announced. You have to understand other perspectives as well. Deep breaths, Greg. I understand this sentiment.
Truly I do. Dont Make It Too Late - Dr. Mablues and the detail Horns - Back For Good (CD) have always been a punctual person. I married a habitually late person. But you sound just a bit overworked on this. Sending an invoice? Would you send that invoice to your boss? Because in my experience, the higher the office, the later the meeting. Their time IS important, and if one meeting needs to run over in order to solve a material business issue, so be it. Or an accident causes a coworker to be late?
Finally someone writes what I have long thought and to which I have reacted firmly. As a military commander and business exec, I have for over 20 years conducted meetings in what many would consider a ruthless manner.
Meetings start on time. Once it starts, the door is locked. If you are an attendee and are two minutes late, tough luck. You are still accountable for what goes on. Discipline — an agenda is published. Anyone straying from the agenda on some tangent is verbally warned once.
Second time, you are expelled from the meeting. And, you are still accountable for what goes on. You get the message after a while. Clearly there are exceptions, but after a while they tend to be RARE exceptions.
I just want to say thanks for this article. No Excuses. Just make it a priority. I love the picture you give of how 10people at 20minutes. I do not want to be THAT guy any longer. I had to break off a friendship due to this same issue of lateness and fuzzy planning.
I truly believe this person has no idea how disrespectful lateness is. Good points, however the value is still misplaced. If your time is what is most important, then clearly you will be upset by others actions regarding events that include you. Not condoning being late. If you value a relationship, you will automatically be early.
If you value your job, you will arrive at the meeting on time. If you value your customers, you will make the extra effort. If you value family, you will find yourself being capable of fitting more in and doing less.
You get paid to have good time management. Your values will most likely never match those of people around you. But if you get people with similar values, it makes life easier. The majority of our world is run by Judging types schedulers, planners, people who generally prefer predictability over spontaneousness. Perhaps though some of us think the world could do with a little more spontaneity and a little less rigid timeliness. In short: get over it. Did you ever consider just having an open conversation with the people in your life about arriving on time vs.
Might help to alleviate the general judging and frustration bogging down the large majority of the posts above. I have ADD, so yes, time did escape me. And perhaps these people are late because their dog died. Or their girlfriend broke up with them. Oh, I will totally skip stopping at the store for tampons just to avoid offending YOU!
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